Other Games Combining Vampire the Masquerade and Delta Green - advice sought

#1
Hello all
I've bought Vampire the Masquerade 5th ed, and am for the first time in my life considering running a game of VTM (Werewolf has always been more my thing).

In the new version of the setting, human security agencies have discovered the existence of vampires, are rooting them out and killing/capturing them. However, since the official VTM5e rules have naff all in the way of description of how these agencies work (in game terms), I thought I might swipe GM-useful and campaign-useful stuff from Delta Green, rather than wait months and months for White Wolf to notice the gap, plus the time for a VTM splatbook to be written and published and actually turn up in the FLGS. Sooo...

Question 1: to folk who are familiar with both VTM and Delta Green - do you think using DG as a 'sourcebook' for VTM is a good idea, or am I on a hiding to nothing?

Question 2: to folk who own Delta Green - which DG books would you recommend I buy?
 

Dom

Administrator
#2
I'm assuming that you are planning to use VTM rules here and the players are Vampires facing hunters?

In the updated version of DG, there are two versions of the organisation. The official program brought in from the cold post 9/11 and the mavericks who have stayed in play as they no longer trust the government. Both organisations believe that they are the real Delta Green, but the knowledge that the other version exists tends to be with the command structure and agents that have had reason to cross the other side. The UK organisation, PISCES, is not covered in the new rules. There is a sourcebook coming but for now, you'd have to use DG: Countdown to get PISCES/UK info and that would very much be set in the 1990s. The new DG Agent's Handbook is pretty much all rules with observations on tradecraft. The new Handler's Guide has all the background information. This is all good through to the present day.

I really like the reboot, but if you only want it as a sourcebook you could get away with just the Handler's Guide unless you need some templates for how the various agency characters are set up which means you'd draw on the Agent's Handbook. If you want the UK material, Countdown is the only option at the moment. The reality is that both Delta Greens would likely go after vampires with extreme prejudice and just see them as another mythos threat.

https://www.rpgnow.com/product/99299/Delta-Green-Countdown
https://www.rpgnow.com/product/2252...Guide?term=delta+green++handlers&test_epoch=0
https://www.rpgnow.com/product/181674/Delta-Green-Agents-Handbook

There are other options; Night's Black Agents does this from the agent side pretty well and does have a lot of good advice on how to deal with vampires that are interacting with the intelligence agencies. Another option would be to lift The Laundry which has vampires in canon (at least in the later books). You could easily change the focus from the mythos to more traditional horror (just make the Lovecraftian elements demons and alien races). World War Cthulhu: Cold War also has a lot of really good agency material in it to draw from, but only really runs to the end of the Cold War. Unfortunately, the latter two are harder to find at the moment due to licencing issues while Cubicle 7 changes from the CoC system. The Cold War book seems to still be available with PDF at the C7 store.

https://www.rpgnow.com/product/106783/Nights-Black-Agents
http://shop.cubicle7store.com/epage...ectPath=/Shops/es113347_shop/Products/CB71970

And, if you haven't seen it, track down Channel 4's TV Series Ultraviolet. Probably the best take on a government agency fighting a low key war with vampires I've seen.

Let me know if you want me to expand on any of this.
 
#3
Thanks Dom. And yes, I'm intending to run it as VTM with the characters as vampires who have to live in a world where MI5/CIA/etc are hunting them down with thermal imaging cameras and hacking their bank accounts. I'm dithering about whether to make it UK based, US or somewhere else in the world.

Heartily agree that C4's Ultraviolet series was great. Plus it's got Idris Elba before he got famous...
 

Dom

Administrator
#4
While I think on, there is a further complication in using PISCES, which is key to that part of the DG setting. I've spoilered it as it is major.

PISCES is controlled by the Shan, who are riding key agents and members of the bureaucracy. It may be preferable to just ignore this unpleasant fact, but it will affect background elements related to Goatswood, Severn Aerospace and more.
 

Guvnor

Administrator
Staff member
#5
I think reading Night's Black Agents, not for the rules but the conspyrimad and vampyramid section. (See @Sablemage blog recently) to give your version of VtM a "les hommes de l'ombres" feel.

&, just grab Delta Green.

What I think this will give your game is an opportunity for self preservation as a legitimate vampire motive.. fascinating
 
#7
While I think on, there is a further complication in using PISCES, which is key to that part of the DG setting.
True, but could concentrating on Vampires be a useful way of diverting the rank and file's attention from PISCES "management"? Plus given what we know from Countdown the management would probably have a genuine dislike of Vampires on religious grounds in the same way as they do for other Cthulhoid entities and their worshippers.
 

Dom

Administrator
#8
To be honest, that whole sub-plot for the UK was one of the few DG things that really irritated me. Yes, it fits in well with Ramsey Campbell's take on the mythos, but sometimes I think that the Lovecraftian games almost over-proliferate the various races, creatures and plots.

You're right though, PISCES management would love this and use it as an opportunity to push for more funding and control... those who weren't cooperating could be immolated as 'vampires' even if they weren't. A convenient way to discredit awkward characters.
 
#9
I think 21st century PISCES is going to be different to the earlier iteration according to comments that have been made by the DG team. Thing the book is still some way off though.

As to the original question, if you aren’t dead set on using DG, I’d second (or is it third 😀) the recommendation of Night's Black Agents, which has done some of the heavy lifting for you. The Dracula Dossier May be a useful addition but far from necessary.

- Neil.
 
#11
I like the fact that instead of being parasites emoting about the place they will have to fight for their very lives, immortal or not.

NBA allows you to "roll your own" version better.
Hey you may have thought VtM was all about posing annoying emo's, but that was all solid roleplaying...Ok back to lounging on my chaise lounge. :D
 
#17
I think the emoting was done by the Mind's Eye Theatre lot. We had a problem in our group in that one person refused point blank to play VtM (on religious grounds) but was OK with WtA, so we didn't play it much at all. Besides, most of us were beyond the emo stage by then and found it rather pointless.
 
#18
Heartily agree that C4's Ultraviolet series was great.
Ultraviolet is great, although rather than use carbon tipped bullets I'd have perhaps taken a leaf out of James Ellroy's Dudley Smith character and used dum-dums dipped in garlic. I gather it causes blood poisoning in human casualties lucky enough to survive being shot. I can't imagine it would do leeches any good.
 

Dom

Administrator
#19
I played one game of VtM, and then was active in the Camarilla/LARP side as Gangrel Sheriff of Chester. The amusing thing was I was playing a pretty basic character but managed to convince the higher powered ones that I was dangerous. And being Gangrel clearly volatile and stupid.
 
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